Original article posted by Chellee:

These are the things Rodney wants to know; these are the things I will address:

(The following is directly cut and pasted from a comment by Ravenpaine)
“I have, on this site, in the past four months attacked many things.

Let’s list them: Your religious beliefs, your family unity, your intellect, your writing skills, your major, your relationships, your sanitary falliability, your art, and your sanity.

But only when I question your country do I get so many responses so quickly and written with such determination. What I want to know is why you all care so much? What is it about the soil that you live on and the people who claim to own such things so important to you? Honestly, why is this a topic that you will fight and die for? There are many greater and more noble causes to fight for. What is it about this one?”

I am very much aware of how you have insulted us collectively and individually. In fact, Rodney, I know some people who have entirely stopped reading the things you post.

I try to respect other people’s opinions. I try to be tactful. I try to give people as many chances as I can. I suppose this was just the straw that broke the camel’s back. I know that personally I have been holding back because I like to feel things out before I jump in. But I think now is a good time to let it fly…

Attacks on my beliefs are common. I don’t criticize you for your lack of religion or belief in anything, why must you hate me for mine?

My family unit is none’ya damn business, but if you’d like to make it your business your welcome to meet them and see what a strong family can do for a person.

My intellect can be clearly seen when you meet me, but as you’ve no interest in me as a person and seem to think I am only a sum of my religion, my physical appearance, and my “major”, you’ll never know.

My writing skills… I know they’re not perfect, but they are above mediocre. If you dislike the way I write, that’s fine. I write on this site to get better at it, not because I’m already amazing.

My major is also none’ya damn business. You’re welcome to listen to me sing. You’re welcome to give me an aptitude test and tell me what you think I should major in. I probably won’t act on it, but I will hear you out and respect you’re opinion.

I have plainly laid out the crappiness of my relationships, why would I attack you when you told me what you thought?

My art… Well, art is so subjective, and I am so far from being good at it. If by MY art you mean music, well, you have no grounds on which to base any claims.

Whatever, insult my sanity. I may have lost it long ago, but you can’t prove that I’m clinically insane.

Why do I care so much about this subject? Well, to be honest, I believe part of my conviction on this subject goes back to something you’ve continuously attacked: my religion. I am a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, and it does greatly influence my life style. My religion was restored because we could come to this country. Many religions were founded because this soil on which we live allows us the simple, rare, and profound freedom of worshipping who we please, where we please, and how we please. Granted, there have been many times when, in this country, we have been persecuted for the very reason we love this land so much. But still we stand.

I hate to break it to you, but this church will not be going away. No matter how much you hate the LDS church, or the people in it, we’re going to be around for a long while still, and there’s lots of us! And the same goes for this country. You may as well buck up and try to work with us [Americans], not blame us for your downfall and the past.

I realize that by writing this, I am going to ruffle a few feathers. But this is what I know. It doesn’t mean that I don’t respect other people’s opinions or beliefs. It doesn’t mean we can’t be friends or that we can’t work together to make our communities a better place, because I believe that’s where it has to start. In our homes and communities. Start small, and work you’re way up.

Most of the other reasons this subject is touchy have been exhausted in earlier dicussion.

When you finally get sick enough of this country to do something or leave, let me know, I’m curious.

In the mean time, you can hate me all you want. I refuse to hate you.

P.S. I’m not willing to die for a “topic”. Although there are many people and causes for which I would fight, there are few for which I would die, and even fewer for which I would live.

Orginal comments:


Nickname: gandhi2
eternal progression
Some of this is a reiteration of what I was saying on the other hot thread, in a nutshell.

Speaking religiously:
It’s called the law of eternal progression. This concept should be familiar to the followers of the LDS faith. It’s a very unique concept, a sharp contrast to several other religions, and nearly the opposite of the Calvinist’s predestination. Buddhists and Hindus have somewhat similar concepts, in nirvana, and reincarnation. To those who aren’t familiar with it, this belief states that you can always progress to a more perfect moral/physical/intellectual state. If you work hard, and try to do all that you can, you will eventually have a chance to become a god yourself, create worlds, and experience life from an objective viewpoint. Basically, you have the agency to control to what extent and how quickly you progress. With repentance, you could get lazy, if you so desired. You could do all sorts of wrong (except for a handful of cardinal sins; these differ depending on who you’re talking to), and then pull yourself out of it later. The problem is that the road back up is pretty hard, and it can get daunting. So the goal is to try to progress as much as you can, and to make yourself a better entity.

Ideals:
Ideals are the basis of community. They tie people together. Ideals are abstract, yet a concrete thing can represent it. A flag. An icon. A cross. Ideals are pure, by definition. It may even be accurate to say that anything pure is an ideal.

Arguing and Insulting:
I’ve learned long ago with my circle of friends the following: Arguments are vital to progress. Arguing is a game. Arguments shouldn’t be taken personally. Never ignore the argument of another person, even if you disagree vehemently. Silence means they have won. Ignoring an expressed viewpoint means they have won. Arguments are not meant to be won, but to further each participants personal development. Arguments force the participants to develop their own personal opinions. An opinion that is not personal falls to piece at the hand’s of a good opponent. The devil’s advocate is the best way for you to progress you opinion. Your opponent is fully justified in switch stances in the middle of an argument. Most often, both participants of a good argument believe the same thing; semantics, syntax, etc, confuse. The best revenge is a cool, calm, intelligent retort. Never stoop to their level; always be prepared to speak their language.

Conclusion:
Don’t get offended. Consider it a chance to bear your testimony, on whatever topic. Tell us why you believe what you believe. Stop blaming the inciter. He/she’s is not trying to convince you to believe something in particular, only to believe something for yourself and not be a parrot.

Why be zealous or patriotic about only one ideal? There are so many that are just as important. Don’t you care about all the other ideals? Don’t you care about religion, art, intellect, etc.? If you don’t personally care, then perhaps they aren’t your personal beliefs.

I agree with everything Rodney has said, except for hating everybody. I have hated everybody. It doesn’t help, and just makes me feel miserable. But I do get frustrated alot, and I’m frustrated that this forum isn’t open-minded enough to respond to opinions, and instead “just stop reading the things” posted by Person X. There are times I want to shake the other person, until all the opinions and parrot phrases they have collected over the years fall out. There are times I wish facts were tangible, and that by screaming them at people with enough force, they’d be bludgeoned out of ignorance. Instead, I argue. I expect the same back.

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